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Melanie Nesheim's avatar

I'm fascinated to learn that Lucifer's hang-up with God was God getting immersed in the messiness of physical life, that this avoidance of mixing the spiritual with the physical is the very thing that created Lucifer's eternal separation from God.

I recently read Plato, where (through Socrates) he extolls the virtue of purifying the mind/soul by ignoring the senses and by the physical. Paul expresses similar ideas in Scripture (e.g., if you're able, abstain from sex, that's the more spiritual path). I thought, Ah, so this is where he got it. He was Greek and was probably steeped in Plato's ideas. I'm seeing now, these ideas originated with...Lucifer?

Some years ago I realized--well, it bubbled up--that the result of this thinking in the West is, Nature is held suspicious, apart, to be controlled, and regarded as, "it's just not spiritual." Women are deeply connected to nature because of the ability to bear children (a messy business indeed). It's no coincidence women in the Catholic Church (where I was raised) are to this day not acceptable as fully spiritual beings (still cannot lead worship as a priest).

I became a Lutheran at age 20 but years later the book "Good Catholic Girls" and writings by Sue Monk Kidd helped me sort all this out. Writings on Celtic Christianity by John Phillip Newell of Scotland put nature back into Christianity just beautifully. These writers, and being Lutheran, helped me begin to feel worthy of a spiritual life as a female person. The revelation today: This idea that nature is too messy and impure for God originates with Lucifer, prince of darkness.

Thank you, Jim!!

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Dave and Pam Sutton's avatar

Thank you, Jim. I appreciate the richness, depth and "over tea" conversation. I have learned another perspective and I am grateful.

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